the other case, doma, defense of marriage act which basically says the federal government will not allow benefits for couples who in their states have been legally married. >> i think that is a much harder problem, not just for the court but for conservatives, and i've made the point in december. i believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. i believe in fact that pope francis's arguments, on relativism are powerful but i believe there are fax on the ground. and, one of the facts is going to be, the state says we are going to limit marriage between a man and woman but, by the way, american citizens visit from a different state. now, what happens to that situation? i mean, i think we are now going to be muddled and i think for the health of country it is better to have the muddle in the legislative bodies and politics than it is to have it cut through by five people on a 5-4 vote. >> chris: we should point out it is interesting, i didn't realize this: the case that is going before the court involves a woman, a lesbian who was involved for many years in a marriage, her partner died